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Blimey!

Paizo have announced they're sticking with 3.5 and publishing their own Pathfinder RPG! Full details at their website

A brave move, but it could work for them. Certainly, Pathfinder is an excellent publication and I was going to keep buying it anyway, whatever edition they write for.

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( 7 comments — Leave a comment )
ninthcouncil
Mar. 20th, 2008 12:31 pm (UTC)
It seems like quite a canny move. There were (and even still are) 2e grognards despite the obvious superiority of the 3e rule set, and if 4e upsets any widely held prejudices (and there are said to be rumblings from the playtests that some people feel it undermines the "roleplaying" element of the game in favour of a more CRPG-type experience, LOL n00b l4m3rz!!!), or if the new "susbscription based" business model is too intrusive, there may be quite a few holdouts. Paizo will be well placed to pick them up, and at relatively little cost.

Another thing is, that even if 4e flies from the word go, it will take a while for 3rd party - or even in-house - designers to completely get to grips with the new system, and even longer for all the bells and whistles to come out. So the standard of early 4e material may be wildly variable and it will be some years before the product is fully developed. 3.5 on the other hand is stable and mature, if perhaps somewhat overburdened by additional material, and Paizo have every opportunity to produce high quality product immediately without any familiarisation period.

On the other hand, if 4e takes off the same way as 3e did, there's nothing to stop Paizo from then jumping on the bandwagon.

Personally, I felt 3e was a *huge* advance on 2e, to the extent that I became willing to play D&D after many years of ignoring it. I can't see 4e being such a quantum leap.
evilmonkey8472
Mar. 24th, 2008 03:09 pm (UTC)
Roleplaying in 4E
"rumblings from the playtests that some people feel it undermines the "roleplaying" element of the game in favour of a more CRPG-type experience"

How so?
richgreen01
Mar. 24th, 2008 06:51 pm (UTC)
Re: Roleplaying in 4E
I think this is a bit unfair. At the D&D Experience, people got to play in 30 minute "Delves" and other short adventures in which combat was the main focus. This was always going to be short on (or completely devoid) of role-playing as only the combat rules were being demonstrated. We don't know how 4e handles role-playing but I would imagine it will be almost entirely down to the DM and the players how much roleplaying there is, as with every previous edition of D&D.

The CPRG influence is pretty inevitable: D&D influenced many CRPGs including World of Warcraft so it's unsurprising it works the other way too as the game evolves. Many of the maneuvers in Book of Nine Swords resemble attacks in Final Fantasy (and anime), for example. More significant is the return to squares (aka inches) for measuring distance: a throwback to Chainmail/OD&D/AD&D 1e.

Edited at 2008-03-24 06:52 pm (UTC)
evilmonkey8472
Mar. 24th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
Re: Roleplaying in 4E
I dont even know what CRPG stands for!

And I'm still not clear about what the roleplaying issues are with regards 3.5 vs 4

When I used to play ver2 and earlier then even if you wanted to use a skill I still made people roleplay its use. I do find it weird when player just ask for a die role to carry out a skill eg intimidate or bluff without even mentioning what their character says. Doesn't that miss the point of a roleplaying game? When I'm dming I don't expect the person to win me over by their roleplay alone but I at least expect them to try. I think 3.5 has moved away from this. Does ver 4 take it yet further away?
richgreen01
Mar. 25th, 2008 09:56 am (UTC)
Re: Roleplaying in 4E
CRPG = Computer Role Playing Game!

I don't really think there are any real issues with roleplaying between 3.5 & 4e but there is a lot of grumbling on ENWorld saying that the game feels more like a CRPG, Magic the Gathering or tactical board game than D&D. We'll have to see.

In 1st & 2nd edition, there weren't really any rules for social interaction (although you could call for a Charisma ability check) so most information-gathering or social encounters had to be resolved by role-playing. This was fine but didn't help the shy player playing the fast-talking rogue or bard.

3.x introduced mechanics for social skills such as intimidate, bluff, diplomacy etc which didn't exist before but I don't usually let these replace roleplaying in my games - instead, you roleplay what you're going to say and this will give you a bonus (or penalty) on your skill check. Sometimes, I won't call for a roll at all, and other times, will use the roll instead of the role-playing if pacing the game would benefit.

For example, if the PCs want to ask around town for some information about a certain NPC or place, I might roleplay the local town gossip, ask for Gather Information rolls or just tell the players, you find out XXX. It all depends on what will be most fun for the game as a whole.

Edited at 2008-03-25 09:57 am (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
richgreen01
Mar. 21st, 2008 12:06 am (UTC)
Who knows? Everytime I try and download the Alpha thing, my browser crashes!
richgreen01
Mar. 21st, 2008 07:49 pm (UTC)
Right, I've finally managed to download the Alpha version of the Pathfinder RPG. At first glance it seems to be a selection of rules variants. I'll post more when I've read through it.
I don't think they're addressing some of the bigger issues with 3.5 though such as the 5 minute adventuring "day" or the incredibly complex high-level combats.
( 7 comments — Leave a comment )

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